Thanks to @MarkSoFla and @hsabomilner for reminding me of this one.
My 5 year old neighbor stops me
You wanted me to make it Assur, well according to some eating in the streets is Assur! One day I had left my house while eating an ices, and I planned on walking to the store and finishing the ices on the way, and then put the wrapper in a garbage can on the way. But then as I walked down my block… my 5 year old neighbor stops me and says “Jewish Side, what are you doing?” while looking at the ices I was eating. So then I said that I’m going to take a walk to the store. So then she tells me that I should finish my ices now. “Jewish Side, you shouldn’t eat in the streets”. So then she reads me face and says, “But you can do what you want, I’m not telling you what to do”.
When the kid told me not to eat in the street. I didn’t want to be “rebellious” and teach her something wrong from what she was taught. So I finished eating the ices there, and then continued on.
But I do remember in elementary school, they taught us not to eat in the streets. I know it may seem ridiculous to most of you, but it does make sense to an extent. For certain types of food, like ice cream etc. (you can use your imagination), it would be untznius to eat these things with people watching you. I actually found a quote of a Rabbi saying that people should take on certain tznius suggestions and this was one of them:
“Refrain from eating/drinking in public areas, especially where men are present.”
So there is actually something to it, the kid didn’t make it up, and my school didn’t make up. But yes, I do agree it is a chumra, and not a Halacha! But yet, there’s nothing wrong with not eating in the streets, so to me it’s a higher level. So I admire those that keep to it, and wouldn’t make fun of them.
41 comments:
The thing is, we need to understand "why" this was decided. If the reasons don't apply anymore, I'd argue that the chumra doesn't apply anymore (and furthermore, *I* would not observe it anymore).
twitter.com/MarkSoFla
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It was a recent thing, one of the mothers of the 2 boys that were arrested in Japan went to a Rabbi and asked what she can do to bring her son back. He told her that it will be a segulah for her, if the community would take on these "chumrah's".
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
This is a matter of derech eretz (for both men and women).
Look at this page from a derech eretz handbook:
http://books.google.com/books?id=LLvIpHFAG5EC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=derech+eretz+eating+street&source=bl&ots=CStNxH6xeb&sig=tfxme5NVH0eMtCyVVJ5xdlVbA24&hl=en&ei=pqeESvzgAoPUNcLrlegE&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=&f=false
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Are you sure that is what the neighbor meant?
It's not a "women's tznius" issue.
It's for everyone.
There is a concept of אוכל בשוק דומה לכלב.
(He who eats in the streets in likened to a dog...)
Thanks so much for that source. There you go. I'm just going to copy and paste what it says:
The Prohibition against Eating in Public
The Talmud (Kiddushin 40b) says that a person who eats in the street, i.e., in a place where people would not normally eat, resembles a dog - an animal which has the quality of humility more than other animals. So, too, a person who eats in public demonstrates his lack of humility. The Talmud rules that a person who eats in public is disqualified from giving testimony. Since he lacks the trait of self-effacement, he will not hesitate to give false testimony and thereby risk public ridicule.
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
right, so I'm guessing she didn't mean it as a tznius issue, and my school probably also didn't mean it as a tznius issue. Just the way it came up was on the topic of tznius. But then again, it could be both.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
i've never heard it mentioned as a tzniyus thing (though it could be). i was extra careful not to eat in the street in israel because there it's just not done. but even in america you shouldn't because it's not derech eretz. like mentioned before- a person is "posul l'aidus" (not fit for giving testimony in court) if he/she eats in the street.
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That's really good of you!
yea, so seems like it's a derech eretz thing, I can't believe I had forgot that reason.
I'm glad this wasn't a "ridiculous" topic after all!
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
"He told her that it will be a segulah for her, if the community would take on these "chumrah's".
urgh.
more appropriate would be for the community to revamp its chinuch to ensure that its kids don't get to the point where they think it is מותר to smuggle contraband. (i'm not looking to rehash this whole debate, so for our purpose i'll concede that they didn't know it was drugs. but they still admitted to engaging in smuggling.)
this is my problem with "segulot." people rely on them to take the easy way out or otherwise avoid the root of the problem.
like using a segulah for health instead of watching what you eat and exercising
using a segulah for parnasah but not making an effort to get a good job
using a segulah for shidduchim but placing every conceivable obstacle to finding one
using to a segulah to stay out of jail while not living crime-free
etc.
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I agree with you 100%!
Reminds me of a post R' Fink wrote about Brachos Parties.
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
I agree it's not refined for a Jewish person to eat in the streets altogether, but women are expected to be even more modest with how 'comfortable' they are with the streets...
(Ever see a person kind of holding his paper plate near his mouth and eating pizza in the street? Makes me laugh every time... I think this little thing we have actually teaches us self control: it's true you may be hungry but there's a time and place for everything)
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I'd also been taught that it's for everyone and makes you like an animal. I was taught this as the proper way to act by a rav who is very NOT into chumrahs- just following what's written.
( His big thing was not making a bracha achronah on ice cream when you didn't eat it quickly enough, which is usually. He's tell us we should say to Hashem, "I'd really like to thank you that way, but I just can't do it.")
I like LoZ's comment -
"like using a segulah for health instead of watching what you eat and exercising
using a segulah for parnasah but not making an effort to get a good job "
Me, oh, my.
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Yea, we have to put in our Hishtadlus!
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
You mentioned a very important thing, it's about self control as well. That there's a time and place for everything. Thanks for bringing that up!
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
I'm so happy to see everyone's comment on this, it's reassuring to hear others say that they have learned this as well. So it's not even a Chumrah!
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
On the topic of health, the Rambam says one should not stand and eat at the same time. That's why Sephardim do sit down kiddush.
It's also not a good idea to walk while eating.
Now if you are sitting at a bench at an outdoor cafe, b'taavon.
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Interesting to know, so that's another good reason to have a sit down kiddush. I've always found it hard to eat standing.
Right, that makes sense, cause it's specifically meant for a place to eat.
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
Interesting to know, so that's another good reason to have a sit down kiddush. I've always found it hard to eat standing.
Right, that makes sense, cause it's specifically meant for a place to eat.
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
" ת"ר האוכל בשוק הרי זה דומה לכלב ויש אומרים פסול לעדות אמר רב אידי בר אבין הלכה כיש אומרים "
One of the things I feel that should be remembered about this statement is that all food was purchaced in the "shuk". For someone to buy groceries in the shuk and eat them right then and there before getting home is a form of giving in too much to ones instincs and is anamalistic in a sense. It's not necisarily saying that you can't eat "outdoors" at all.
Though it does say elsewhere in the tanaitic writings that "Moshe established two meals a day for Israel; since before that they would "peck" all day, like chickens". So, even indoors, one should strive to eat a regular meal intervals, as opposed to "nibbling". I've seen rabbis who consumed some sort of food or drink almost contately, ...it's improper (for a "Student of Sages" especially).
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Thanks for the input. That makes sense, like someone mentioned before, it shows self control, to eat at the right place and right time.
Then again we also have 3 meals on Shabbos, and one of those is Friday night, so I guess you can say it's 2 meals a day. Very good, makes sense to have meals rather than "nibbling" all day.
I've always felt a bit like an animal when I would nosh from a cereal box, cause it reminded me of the food you get from the zoo when you feed the animals.
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
Tznius isn't only for women. We too were taught in school about eating in public as being a tznius thing- but who says it's just for women? There are some tznius things that r only for women (covering elbows etc. ) but I don't think this falls into that category.
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Interesting, didn't know about that. Then again I'm in california and don't know what's happening in on the other coast, exact for what I hear and read.
I guess it's one of those things that you can decide whether or not to follow it.
I've eaten outside before, but I remember thinking that it mght be better Etiquette to wait
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Thanks for the comment.
Very true what you said, so this explains how it can be a tznius issue as well, and your right, tznius isn't just for women. Plus tznius is more than just the way we dress.
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
Right, if it was a chumra, then you can choose whether or not to follow it. From the responses I got, it seems like it's not a chumra.
Yea, it would be more proper to sit down and eat.
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
lol, you didn't have to type that in. It should detect your feed on it's own.
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
it use to
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"in a place where people would not normally eat"
hence it doesn't apply anymore
why doesn't it apply anymore? There are places still, where people won't eat normally. Most people eat at a table in a house or other eating establishment. The more refined people won't eat while walking to work or such, they will wait till they get to a place to sit, and then have their breakfast.
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
yea, so I guess it just needs a longer time to detect your feed or something.
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
In Monsey, lots of things aren't allowed. Forget eating in the streets, I'm surprised women aree allowed to go out in the streets at all.
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well we don't live in the olden days anymore, so I doubt they can tell women not to go outside! Although, it is more tznius for a women to be in the house, we learn it from Sara Imenu, when the Malachim came to visit Avram, they asked where his wife was, and she was in the tent.
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
Outside people do eat/drink some things, though not everything. When there are street fairs in the summer, this occurs even more often.
anyway, my latestest is similar to one of yours
shalom
anyway, my recent post is a similar to what you mentioned in another post
cool, I'll check it out
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
I also learnt that not eating while walking was a matter of derech eretz not tziut. I suppose it has to do with concentrating on eating, since eating is an important act in life.
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Yea, it does seem to be a derech eretz issue. Interesting way of looking at it, eating is definitely important.
Recent blog:=- Eating In Public
All of you have already exhausted the halachic/hashkafic discussion of standing while eating/eating in public, so I've come up with a 'new' perspective as to why sitting is probably better :P
I was reading a psychology book a couple of months ago, and one of the things it talked about was eating. The author was discussing paying attention to what one does on a regular basis. For example, when washing dishes, don't wash the dishes for the sake of having clean dishes; wash them for the sake of washing them. Feel the dish in your hand, the warm water, soap, how slippery it, how your hand moves whilst washing it, etc. He applied the same thing to everything, but spent a extra bit of time with food. He talked about a raisin and laid down around 12 to 15 steps to take before that single raisin gets to your stomach. It was remarkable to actually follow through with. It didn't last very long, but I appreciated eating, and a lot of other things for that matter, way more. Apparently it's healthy for both one's mind and body. I don't think I need to explain why. Point being, the amount of time and steps it takes to eat anything with the amount of steps he gives necessitates sitting; yes it takes that long lol.
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Very interesting, and I like that idea of taking time to think about the process and enjoy it, rather than to just eat for the end result of having the energy.
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