Saturday, January 3, 2009

A DMC with My Cousin

First I have to give a little intro. What I’m about to share is from December 27, 2006. So that’s over 2 years ago. I have changed a lot since then thanks to life experiences. I no longer feel the same way about some of the issues being discussed. Maybe I’ll do a part 2 with an update on this. Also, Keep in mind this is from AIM. I’m not sure if I should even share this, but here goes.

"My cousin" (2:48:05 PM): hello
"My cousin" (2:48:09 PM): how are you doing?
“Babysitter” (2:48:20 PM): hey, I'm B"H good, u?
"My cousin" (3:57:48 PM): he's right about you talking to too many guys
"My cousin" (3:57:52 PM): no offense
"My cousin" (3:58:21 PM): but if I were a boy I wouldn't be interested in a girl that talks to guys
"My cousin" (3:59:04 PM): if a boy is thinking of getting married - why wouldn't he want a wife that has eyes only for him
"My cousin" (3:59:09 PM): and the same for the girl
"My cousin" (3:59:32 PM): why would he want his wife to be talking to other boys
"My cousin" (3:59:45 PM): I would never want to marry a guy that talks to many girls
"My cousin" (3:59:48 PM): would you?
“Babysitter” (4:00:21 PM): yea, I know, I was thinking that maybe I'm a hypocrite, cause I would be jealous if he talked to a lot of girls
“Babysitter” (4:00:34 PM): I forgot what I was gonna say'

"My cousin" (4:01:01 PM): I hope you remember
"My cousin" (4:01:12 PM): not just jealous
"My cousin" (4:01:19 PM): something much deeper
"My cousin" (4:01:32 PM): if a boy doesn't talk to other girls
"My cousin" (4:01:44 PM): he only knows his wife
"My cousin" (4:01:50 PM): is only attracted to his wife

“Babysitter” (4:01:43 PM): but in away it could be that if he picks me out of all, or I pick him out of all then it makes it more special, no?
"My cousin" (4:02:02 PM): not really
"My cousin" (4:02:19 PM): everyone knows that there are many other boys/girls in the world
"My cousin" (4:02:44 PM): and every time two people decide to get married they are picking each other out from everyone else
"My cousin" (4:03:40 PM): but when a boy/girl knows many girls/boys then he/she loses the specialness of the girl/boy they decide to marry
"My cousin" (4:03:54 PM): instead of only thinking about their spouse
"My cousin" (4:04:06 PM): now they s/t also think about the other girl/boy they know
"My cousin" (4:04:21 PM): sometimes they compare their spouse the other people they know
"My cousin" (4:04:48 PM): and there will always be some aspects that they liked better in a different person other than their spouse
"My cousin" (4:05:18 PM): this is a problem even when people go on many shidduch dates

“Babysitter” (4:05:23 PM): interesting point, but I once heard every shiduch date has a purpose
"My cousin" (4:05:33 PM): kal vachomer on this type of personal level
"My cousin" (4:05:40 PM): people say that
"My cousin" (4:06:01 PM): I don't know what they base it on
"My cousin" (4:06:06 PM): but I can tell you one thing
"My cousin" (4:06:42 PM): Every person has free will and they can do what they want and there are definitely people that are not proper to go out with
"My cousin" (4:06:54 PM): and if someone goes out with such a person
"My cousin" (4:07:04 PM): even though they know it is wrong
"My cousin" (4:07:20 PM): no one could say that it had a good purpose
"My cousin" (4:07:26 PM): it's called bechirah
“Babysitter” (4:07:51 PM): so then people should only go out with people they know are for sure someone they would marry?
“Babysitter” (4:07:55 PM): right?
"My cousin" (4:08:17 PM): well - someone there is a good chance they would marry
"My cousin" (4:08:22 PM): it's impossible to know for sure
"My cousin" (4:08:25 PM): before they meet

“Babysitter” (4:08:23 PM): right, ok, that's true
“Babysitter” (4:08:37 PM): but also, like what kind of things could be given up?
“Babysitter” (4:08:42 PM): like to compromise on?
"My cousin" (4:09:03 PM): things that don't matter so much
"My cousin" (4:09:11 PM): it depends on what's important
"My cousin" (4:09:14 PM): to you
“Babysitter” (4:09:10 PM): ok, I see
“Babysitter” (4:09:15 PM): and also, do parents have a say?
“Babysitter” (4:09:22 PM): or its all my choice?

"My cousin" (4:09:52 PM): your parents cannot halachically stop you from marrying the person you want to marry
"My cousin" (4:10:09 PM): it's one thing you don't have to listen to your parents for
"My cousin" (4:10:30 PM): (although you should try your best to do it as respectfully as possible)

“Babysitter” (4:10:33 PM): but what if I have a feeling my father wouldn't let me go out with someone?
“Babysitter” (4:10:46 PM): and I'm not sure if I would or not
“Babysitter” (4:10:54 PM): its hard to explain

"My cousin" (4:11:07 PM): try
“Babysitter” (4:11:50 PM): what if I think my parents wouldn't approve of someone, but maybe I don't even know that person enough to know if they would or wouldn't, but if I would want to I should?
"My cousin" (4:12:37 PM): you should find out more about the person
"My cousin" (4:12:51 PM): I'm scared to ask how you know the person in the first place

“Babysitter” (4:12:46 PM): lol
"My cousin" (4:13:02 PM): “Babysitter”, what's wrong with normal shiduchim?
“Babysitter” (4:12:58 PM): lol
“Babysitter” (4:13:00 PM): well
“Babysitter” (4:13:15 PM): I feel like I have to first get to know the person, online its much easier
“Babysitter” (4:13:20 PM): I wouldn't be able to talk in person
“Babysitter” (4:13:33 PM): so this way I get to know what their like

"My cousin" (4:14:11 PM): “Babysitter”, this is one thing the people are right about - you don't get to really know someone online
"My cousin" (4:14:29 PM): and that's the same reason I believe you find it easier to talk online
"My cousin" (4:14:56 PM): Anyways “Babysitter” sometimes you just have to trust people that know what they're talking about
"My cousin" (4:15:24 PM): when the gedolim and mechanchim say it's a bad idea - they are basing it on real experiences of many people
"My cousin" (4:15:29 PM): they know what they are saying
"My cousin" (4:15:31 PM): you
"My cousin" (4:15:35 PM): on the other hand
"My cousin" (4:15:41 PM): have negius
"My cousin" (4:15:46 PM): you want to do it
"My cousin" (4:15:56 PM): so it's hard for you to see the problem with it

“Babysitter” (4:15:58 PM): yea, I understand
"My cousin" (4:16:38 PM): when someone talks to you online they are hiding behind the computer
"My cousin" (4:16:55 PM): the only thing you know is what they type on their keyboard
"My cousin" (4:17:03 PM): you don't even see them
"My cousin" (4:17:23 PM): they could even be a girl pretending to be a boy and you would never know
"My cousin" (4:17:26 PM): anyways
"My cousin" (4:17:40 PM): even in person it's hard to get to know the real person
"My cousin" (4:17:49 PM): that's why people do research

“Babysitter” (4:17:53 PM): yea, true, ok
“Babysitter” (4:18:34 PM): I guess I'm just nervous that in person no one will like me
“Babysitter” (4:18:42 PM): but I know I shouldn't think that
“Babysitter” (4:18:45 PM): so forget
"My cousin" (4:19:30 PM): why should people like you better online?
“Babysitter” (4:19:34 PM): cause I feel like I could be myself
“Babysitter” (4:19:40 PM): not afraid to talk
“Babysitter” (4:19:44 PM): cause its typing
“Babysitter” (4:19:49 PM): and I like typing
“Babysitter” (4:19:56 PM): and I cold edit my words
“Babysitter” (4:20:02 PM): could

"My cousin" (4:20:18 PM): why do you need to edit your words
"My cousin" (4:20:18 PM): ?

“Babysitter” (4:20:20 PM): while I'm thinking what to say
“Babysitter” (4:20:29 PM): if I change my mind
“Babysitter” (4:20:34 PM): I don't know

"My cousin" (4:20:55 PM): it's something to think about
"My cousin" (4:20:58 PM): for real
"My cousin" (4:21:15 PM): it's very important to really get to know yourself well
"My cousin" (4:21:23 PM): before you date
"My cousin" (4:21:45 PM): also if you get to know yourself better you'll know more what you want

“Babysitter” (4:21:59 PM): right, but that's hard, cause I always want to do what other people want me to do, so its hard to know what I want for myself
“Babysitter” (4:22:16 PM): I just want to do what's right
“Babysitter” (4:22:23 PM): and everyone has diff opinions of what's right

"My cousin" (4:22:37 PM): you have to be very honest and ask yourself questions and
"My cousin" (4:22:45 PM): answer them honestly
"My cousin" (4:22:59 PM): why do you want to do what other people want you to do
"My cousin" (4:23:00 PM): ?

“Babysitter” (4:23:03 PM): cause that's my nature
"My cousin" (4:23:24 PM): who are you trusting to make decisions for you?
"My cousin" (4:23:30 PM): who said that's your nature
"My cousin" (4:23:41 PM): every person is responsible for their actions
"My cousin" (4:23:44 PM): no one can say
"My cousin" (4:23:54 PM): well so and so wanted me to do it
“Babysitter” (4:23:53 PM): right ok
"My cousin" (4:24:35 PM): also, aren't there things that you want to do without anyone telling you?
“Babysitter” (4:24:40 PM): but usually other people know what's right
"My cousin" (4:24:58 PM): WHO SAID
"My cousin" (4:25:04 PM): I DON'T THINK SO
"My cousin" (4:25:13 PM): NOT JUST ANY JO SCHMO
“Babysitter” (4:25:10 PM): I'm talking about my parents
“Babysitter” (4:25:14 PM): and teachers
“Babysitter” (4:25:17 PM): and stuff like that

"My cousin" (4:25:34 PM): well it depends who
"My cousin" (4:25:38 PM): it's your life

“Babysitter” (4:25:42 PM): see I've heard that 100 times
"My cousin" (4:25:53 PM): so you want to make sure that you are only trusting trustworthy people
“Babysitter” (4:25:51 PM): ok
“Babysitter” (4:25:57 PM): so there are some that I trust
“Babysitter” (4:26:01 PM): and admire

"My cousin" (4:26:26 PM): and they want you to do things that you don't want to do
"My cousin" (4:26:27 PM): ?

“Babysitter” (4:26:22 PM): no
"My cousin" (4:26:38 PM): I have to daven I'll be back soon
“Babysitter” (4:26:34 PM): ok, ttyl
“Babysitter” (4:26:39 PM): or a diff day

If your still reading, there was a part 2 to this. But that went on a completely different topic.


Moshe said...

Umm...both of you sound...

Your cousin does realize that even if a her husband will be in kollel all his life, not very likely, and she will do all the shopping and everything, he'll still see women outside.

No amount of research will tell you everything about the other person. The problem nowdays is that everyone's looking for a concept instead of a person.

"when the gedolim and mechanchim say it's a bad idea - they are basing it on real experiences of many people"
Yeah, sure they are. My shul's rabbi was talking about how evil facebook is and how he personally looked into it. He doesn't have a computer or internet so I have now idea how he was able to do that. Every new media is demonized, nothing new here.

Shorty said...

I don't know about avoiding talking to the other gender. It can go both ways, either they will only have "eyes for you" or they can always wonder about other people, what would another person be like to talk to.

Also, you learn to communicate better when you chat with the opposite gender. Men think differently than women. Women are more sensitive and emotional than men. They take words seriously. Men think "on the surface" so to speak. Men tend to say what is on their minds, and let it go beyond that. Women analyze.

Anyway that is just some of the differences. If you don't know that going into your relationship than how can you expect to know how to talk to your mate?

just some random thoughts!

Shavuah Tov!

Child Ish Behavior said...

You do realize that on one hand she was telling you to think for yourself and on the other hand was telling you to listen to her?

Baal Tshuva Slowly said...

As of talking to people online - that's truly an evil habit if can do that in real life. Even phone does not let you see other persons reactions, emotions. You can always play around how you sound if you're hidden behind screen or phone. I know this on personal experience as I have spent hundreds of hours IMimg with few(!) people, mostly girls. You never get to know character on the other side and you only feed yourself with illusions that you know what to expect from someone you spoke online with.

Try to avoid it as much as possible and don't let others get you into this!

Moshe said...

Absolutely not true. And for your hundreds of hours, I was a moderator on MIRC and have spent thousands of hours.
Most people find it easier to be themselves online and are more open. I'm guessing most of your experience is with chance encounters.
Especially with blogs, you get to know the real person, something that would never happen in person.
And dude, your "experience", if I'm guessing who you are correctly...well, I told you then you were deluding yourself. Listen to your elders ;-)

The Babysitter said...

Moshe: yea, I know I sounded a bit crazy there...that's why I wrote it's from 2 years ago.

Yea, but I suppose she's saying it's ok if he runs into woman outside. Just so long as he doesn't build any emotional connection with other women.

Also, that's what I heard the beauty of a husband learning for the first few years of marriage is, so that he doesn't see any goyish ladies who are untznius and get thoughts.

I suppose, it actually reminds me of a story. In HS a teacher told us that there was a couple and the wife referred to her husband as an angel, that he was perfect. Then they got divorced, and she said the problem was that if you think of the spouse as perfect then you'll have high expectations of them, and then there's no room for human mistake, so if they do one thing wrong then it can cause drastic responses.

Right, so with media and gadget stuff, then I think your right. I think VIN actually had a great article written by R' Yaakov Horrowitz about this.

Shorty: right, like they might think the grass is greener on the other side, that's why the person has to be a content and happy person, so that they won't feel the need to look out for something better and think that their missing something.

That's very true, I've learned a lot about men through chatting, but yet I learned you still have to be careful of their emotions, that they do get hurt sometimes.

And I guess they learn from experience, that's why they say it takes many years to build up a marriage, and that you have to keep working on it. But there are Marriage books out there to help on this. I actually have a great post about this, maybe I'll share it.

Thanx, you too have a good shabbos!

Childish: I think she was still telling me to think for myself, but more like to take into account what she was saying, and not to block it out.

BaalTshuvaSlowly: That can be true, that it can be like a fantasy, and you don't really know the other side. But if you have the right kinds of conversations, you can tell a lot about the other person through chatting, without them even realizing how much they are revealing about themselves.

Moshe: very true, IM lets people be more open than they would in person. Hence the second conversation.

and True, blogs are a great way to learn about a person.

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